By: S. Davis
My lovely friend Lucy and I decided to have a fun little exchange to fuck up the world of dating for singles from Melbourne to Los Angeles. Since one of us – not me, by the way – mentioned or captured a bang buddy (or a fwb arrangement depending what term you’re familiar with) we’ll start there.
S: Now the bang buddy is tricky because at some point one party is going to get attached emotionally – and kill the arrangement. I had a perfect one and it operated fluidly…until she wanted a relationship after about four months.
Lucy: Hmm four months, maybe there’s an expiry date on “bang buddy” situations!?
S: Yes, dear. Let me paint the picture for you; hold on to your seat. There’s a shelf life IF you want it to remain casual. Here are some personal rules of engagement:
- I only saw her for sex.
- No date-like activities at all (outside of watching movies at her place or mine).
- I would see her about 3-6 times per month; usually on the weekends.
- Limited conversations – few actual phone calls – so we’d text the majority of the time.
That’s most of the conditions that I recall, ha. It was damn near perfect until feelings developed. We were kissing one night and she said, “I’m starting to have feelings for you. I want more.” We talked and I told her that I couldn’t give her that. She wasn’t pleased but remained calm because I was clear that I didn’t want anything serious before we ever had sex. It’s tricky, Lucy, I mean I have male/female friends that have kept some fwb/bang buddy’s for longer than four months.
Lucy: Yeah it seems a little difficult, but I did a bit of reading on it, lol, and it seems like most of the time it was women that develop feelings, so maybe when a nice friendly guy comes along I will take it on like an experiment perhaps, haha!
S: Ha! Research? Look at you; love that! Men can develop feelings but usually it’s the woman who develops them because I think women have a hard time removing the emotional aspect from sex. Why is that?
Lucy: Well, I will “try” to research it. haha! Sure men can gain feelings from a “bang buddy” situation too, but generally speaking women are the more emotional gender, I guess that’s why it’s more common for women to get attached easily. Besides, speaking for myself here, emotions come into it during or before sex, if I didn’t feel attracted to a guy, I wouldn’t sleep with them, if I wasn’t “feeling” anything during sex how boring would that be. Do you feel the same? Or is it all just physical with men?
S: Sex is usually just physical for me, first and foremost – and physical attraction is paramount. Now before you think I’m a robot, hold on. Sex becomes emotional for me after I already care about a woman – and before we’re sweating on top of each another. I’m able to separate the emotions from the act of sex until I decide that I want to get emotionally invested. It’s a pretty neat trick. Ultimately, I think women give sex to gain love whereas men give love (or a comparable replica) to get sex. Men are afraid to dive-in emotionally so we get out, so to speak, before a true connection can flourish.
You said “emotions come into it during or before sex” and if you “didn’t feel attracted you wouldn’t sleep with” a guy so what exactly are you experiencing, on an emotional level during sex? Does attraction lead to a deeper connection for you?
Lucy: I don’t believe that all women give sex to gain love. Most give sex WHEN they love. There are also women, myself included, that give sex because they feel wanted. I’ll admit it, it feels great to feel wanted.
S: I’m following. Teach me moooooooooore.
Lucy: Does attraction lead to a deeper connection? Yes, for me anyway. The “feelings” that I get during and before sex besides attraction and feeling wanted is a feeling of companionship. Feeling comfortable with them helps a lot to “let loose” for me personally.
S: You know kids might be reading this, Miss “let loose.”
Lucy: (Rolls eyes)
S: I’ll shut my mouth.
Lucy: Now I’m extremely new at “bang buddy” situations but I want to experiment. Maybe it’s a good idea just to sleep with someone for their looks, try “banging” like a man so to speak haha! So how do you separate the emotions from the act of sex? What are your tricks? Or do you just run away from any woman that you are more than just initially attracted to?
S: Sleeping with someone for their looks is not as bad as it sounds. It’s really not.
Lucy: Is that an answer?
S: All right. I’ve always been able to deconstruct sex to its simplest form: A carnal need for erotic pleasure. Sex is one of the few activities to offer true gratification (and escapism) in such a harsh world. I’ve never had feelings emerge as a byproduct of sex but I’ve had well established feelings enhanced because of it. Get it? I just don’t get emotional during sex. However I make sure that she’s having a good time – I’m not a selfish lover – by being patient, attentive, passionate and memorable. As for tricks? I don’t allow myself attachment solely based on the fact that we shared a night together; it’s casual. For me it’s really that simple. When it’s casual I have, let’s say, emotional barriers that enable me to keep myself divorced from feelings of attachment, longing or love. Emotions only penetrate when true feelings for the woman manifest in me after forging a connection on a meaningful level. I never run away from a woman who I’m initially attracted to. Put down the bourbon, Lucy. I crave women. You elegant, gorgeous, strong, timeless pieces of humanity; I mean if there wasn’t 15 hours of flight time standing in the way you’d be telling your friends about the mistake you made with the sexy chocolate American guy…while making plans to see me again. Ha.
How do women in your part of the world feel about paying on dates? How many dates before you, the woman, decide to pay, or at the very least contribute monetarily to a night out? In America, answers run the entire spectrum but I’d say a lot of women are personally offended if they’re asked – or it’s implied – that they should chip in. My European female friends have no trouble contributing or paying and they don’t see why it’s such a heated issue for women in America. What’s your take?
Lucy: As new as I am to “sleeping around” I understand not having feelings emerge from having sex compared to having feelings enhanced because of sex. I have to say that I’m quite proud of myself for not falling in love with the last guy I had sex with. Ensue applause!
S: (Applauds on cue)
Lucy: But if you like your sexual partner even a little bit, would that build problems by having regular unattached sex?
S: Nope, not at all.
Lucy: I believe that I have emotional barriers, actually a towering fortress erected from a recent failed relationship, that should make my “bang buddy” endeavours pretty easy don’t you think!? Except that what I want is a friend as well, is that unrealistic?
S: I wouldn’t say that. I would say that it isn’t simple to put into action. Sex complicates things. At some point in time it always does.
Lucy: Ah you got me, I’ve only had two bourbons (that’s 6 in my country) you may not run away from the women straight away, but do you have sex with them then run?
S: No. If it becomes something consistent – more than a one-night bone – I’ll make it clear that I’m not looking for a commitment.
Lucy: Because if that’s the case then 15 hours of flight time should work in your favour! Would hardly be a mistake my sexy, chocolate friend, perhaps you’re afraid you might just fall in love with me! Ha!
S: Wow, ha! Well played, I must admit. If it’s that good maybe I stick around to see what happens after we rise in the morning. Afraid? Hmmmmm…
Lucy: As for paying for dates, I always try. I’m the annoying girl that won’t stop, I’m very persistent…
S: Wait, what? Persistent with…
Lucy: …with paying that is! I still like when a man offers to pay, but I also like to pay because I can, because I don’t need a man to pay for me or buy me things. I guess some women like to be doted on hand and foot, but maybe it just depends on who asked whom out on the date. If I asked you out on a date, would you expect to pay?
S: If YOU asked me out I would hope your head wouldn’t spin if I suggested that you contribute. There are times I blatantly request it just to witness the response. For the first date, there’s no question that I expect to pay. However if that first date involves several activities – only if it’s going well – I don’t automatically morph into a damn ATM. A date is an investment of time reserved by an investment of money. I feel that my time is just as important as the lovely lady that I’m sitting across from. Why can’t dating become an equally balanced economic transaction? Men get shafted on this. Usually I take the first two dates on my ledger but after that she’s coming out-of-pocket. Does my time not merit a financial investment? I think it does. I was raised by a single mother to be a gentleman…not a sucker. Additionally I’m not a sleazebag who thinks paying for an evening out entitles me to a vagina tour. Those guys are weak. Side note: It’s no coincidence that the women I dated, seriously, were flexible on this topic, just saying. I think you’re cut from the same cloth and it’s infinitely alluring.
How comfortable are you with physical contact on a date? I’m talking about kissing, touching, holding hands, etc; first date or otherwise? What’s with this “two bourbons (that’s 6 in my country)” thing?
Lucy: Firstly let me just say that I completely agree with you, dates should be equally balanced, unfortunately not everyone see’s it that way. If you insist on paying for the first date, there’s no question I will pay for the second.
S: You’re reasonable and I appreciate that. It’s so much simpler. C’mon ladies, stop making guys feel weird about the financial aspect of dating.
Lucy: And the two bourbons thing? No idea haha! I had more than 6 too so I just can’t tell you what was going on in my head!
S: Don’t blame bourbon for the voices in your head, Lucy.
Lucy: I am absolutely comfortable with physical contact on a date. The first date I would say a definite no to hand holding, I feel like that is reserved for serious relationships or at least couples who want to stay together, but certainly still touching. It’s even better if you can get a booth type seating arrangement so you sit next to each other.
S: Booth seating is a sly trick to get closer. I like it and have used it to varying levels of success.
Lucy: I always find reasons to touch, it’s exciting, stimulating, sets my nerve-endings on edge, makes my skin tingle and it makes my heart beat faster. There shouldn’t be a problem touching as long as you don’t try to slip your hand up my skirt straight away on the first date, that’s for later on, depending on how stimulated I feel 😉
Lucy: Kissing is acceptable towards the end of a first date as long as you don’t just grab the back of my head while I’m mid sentence. I probably wouldn’t want to constantly kiss during though because I actually like conversing with my date.
S: Conversing is overrated though.
Lucy: If it’s the second date or more, kiss away!
S: Cool. Addressing the touching aspect, I always defer to the woman. I let her dictate how much physical attention she’s comfortable with receiving. I agree with you on holding hands unless it’s a relationship and even then I’m not big on it. I do like to kiss and sometimes I’ll get it out-of-the-way halfway before the date is over but I don’t necessarily need a kiss to rate a date as a successful evening.
Lucy: Now have you accumulated enough information for a particular Australian rendezvous yet? Do you try to have sex with a girl on the first date? Even if the night wasn’t that great? And would you say she’s easy just because she had sex with you on the first date?
S: I hope to avoid going on the actual date at all, for real. Ha! I’d rather skip all that and get to the point where her clothes are on the floor. I have to say that I’ve never “tried” to get sex on the first date – although I’m a guy and I want it – because I won’t put myself in a position to be disappointed. What happens if that’s my goal and it doesn’t come to fruition? Then I’m upset and that could influence how great the night could be; it’s being setup to fail. I’ve had the night end in sex when the date portion was “blah” at best…and it was memorable. We didn’t agree on much, conversation was contentious at times, but she was gorgeous. After taking a taxi back to her place she asked if I was coming upstairs. Yes! If I’m agreeing to the date, then at the very least, I’m physically interested. There’s NO OTHER reason for me to meet; now I stay for other reasons but attraction gets me there.
She won’t be labeled by me if she puts out on the first date. I mean I had sex so I’m just really happy. I take it as a compliment that she felt comfortable enough to sweat on me and allow me to do passionate things to her. As men, we get praised for getting it on night one whereas women get talked about and shit on. It’s not fair. As long as you’re practicing safe-sex then by all means do it.
Pertaining to the aforementioned “rendezvous,” well, yes I do have an abundance of information…as do you. I’m giving it real consideration. You know that planes land in Los Angeles, right?
At what point during the night, when you like how things are progressing, do you contemplate inviting him to your bed? (Number of dates irrelevant, unless they’re not.) What are you looking for on the first date? What’s a successful first date to Lucy?
Lucy: I’m very glad you think it’s unfair to give a girl shit for having sex on the first date, I’ve never understood why men get away with it and women get called sluts. It’s extremely unfair. Would you call me a slut because I had sex on the first date I had since my 10 year relationship ended?? No, I doubt anyone would. Women have needs as men do, as I’m finding out it’s not difficult to find someone to have sex with, it’s difficult to find someone that you want to have sex with.
As for your question I would have already decided or at least considered having sex with the man that I’m going on a date with even before the date has happened. If I’ve already agreed to the date willingly, not out of pity (that was my last date unfortunately), then of course I’ve definitely considered sex with him. At the end of the date, as long as they’re charming, attentive, don’t seem like a complete asshole, then yes I would definitely have sex with him. And that, to me, makes it a successful first date. It makes me want date number two, only if the sex is good of course.
As for flights to Los Angeles, I actually have a ticket in my name with Virgin that needs to be used by October; I’m just waiting for someone to convince me that it’s worth the trip. I can get satisfaction in Melbourne quite easily, so I need a little convincing, I need someone to make love to my mind before I make such a leap for fear of it being disappointing 😉
S: I can take care of your mind and everything else. I’m confident that you’ll fly home satisfied (or extend your trip and file citizenship paperwork). The reality will surpass your expectations. I know that autumn arrives around March in Australia so if great weather is a factor, book that flight to LA between March to September. Los Angeles is warm for 9 months of the year. You won’t be disappointed as it would be a diplomatic mission of mine to ensure you have a great report to put on file back on your home soil.
The second date is coming soon.